Hugh Petrie| May 15, 2006 11:07AM You do Ali proud with this portrait.
Maziar Adl | May 15, 2006 11:53AM Huh, he reminds me of Entezami! What do they call those axe-like things he is hanging? Does anybody know what they are or what they stand for?
Amir | May 15, 2006 5:59PM Someone once told me, because the Dervishes would wander around day and night, in and out of cities, from one place to the other like gypsies, those axes used to be their defence against wild animals and thieves, etc. I am not sure though!
Maziar | May 15, 2006 10:52PM Interesting, probably true. Wonder were I could get more info on the whole subject of Ali followers, the Dervish and their history.
Shirin| May 16, 2006 6:58AM Maziar, the little hatchets that dervishes carry around are called ‘Tabar-zin’.
Now since you have expressed interest in the subject of darvishi, I thought you might like this little story. It’s about Abou-Saeed-eh Abolkheir, one of the most famous dervishes.
One day a man was walking around in Greece when he came face to face with the Devil. The man was surprised to say the least. ‘What business can the Devil possibly have here in Greece where all people are sinners (on account of them all being non Moslems)?’ He thought to himself, ‘He should be in a Moslem country trying to trick the good people into doing bad things. Maybe he’s on his holidays (vacation to you Americans)!’ But no, the Devil looked too lost and disorientated to be on his holidays.
Sometime later when the Devil finally managed to clear his head a little and recall what had happened to him, this is the story he told the man: ‘Just a little while ago this morning, after a heavy night of tricking Moslem men and women into doing bad things, I was enjoying a little stroll around the streets of Iran, breathing in the beautiful smell of horseshit, when I suddenly found myself in front of the great Abou-Saeed-eh Abolkheir. Everything that happened after that is a blur. I vaguely remember Abou-Saeed getting on all fours and pointing his bottom in my direction, next thing I knew he had produced such an amazingly powerful (excuse my language) fart, that had blasted me all the way to Greece!’
And that is the way of the true dervish my dear brother-in-law.
Maziar Adl | May 16, 2006 12:52PM Funny! Interesting about Tabar-Zin. Somehow I knew the word but didn't know what it means!
I also did a little of my own research on the net. Apparently this Mollah Nassr-e-din is also a figure from a Dervish or Sufi order. And, there are quite a few of these orders of Dervishes. The orders have members from Iran to Turkey to Senegal! For example the Nimatulalhi order which most its members now reside in Iran is an order following Shah Nematullah (whom settled in Kerman during 14th Century) and they where originally Sunni's. They converted sometime during 16th century to Shia. Then there is the Sufi order in Turkey which are probably the most famous since they have performed in most the world with their white outfit and their unique Sufi dance and that is the Khalwati or Helvati order. Finally it seems that the most popular order is Naqshbandi order which seems to trace it roots from prophet Mohammed through Abu-Bakr. The starter of this Sufi order was (drum roll) Baha-ud-Din Naqshband Bukhari around late 14th century.
My theory is that during Ilkhanat there was to some extent religous tolerance so all these different orders came about which I think mainly was a way for Persians to find an identity that was not defined under Arab or Mongolian traditions. Post-Ilkhanat era in Iran was a struggle to achieve this identity which I think ended in the Safavid dynasty (with Safavid order being their way) finally bringing a fully sovereign Iran back in the hands of Iranians after many years of Arab and Mongolian rule followed by kaos. Shia was a way to differentiate yourself and gain independence in Iran as an Iranian at the time (even before Ilkhanat). But that is just my theory and probably Shirin your father knows much more about this.
I'm interested because I believe that a big part of my Grandfather's family from my mothers side, follow some Dervish or Sufi order that heavily believes in following Imam Ali's way. I also have heard that they select a person from the family to be the head of it. To what extent this is true and how serious the new generation is keeping up the tradition? I have no clue! All I know is that even if that is so, it seems that we are not part of it, cause I didn't get any invitations to no ceremonies! ;)
Tima | May 16, 2006 3:30PM A truly "WOW picture. Just look at him ... it's like we all know him ... A biker looking darvish ... some character, huh? Love his "henna" painted nails, the look in his eyes .... oh the stories he could tell. Did you get a chance to talkk to this gentleman kami joon?
Kamyar| May 17, 2006 4:03PM No unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to talk to him Tima joon.
Shirin| May 18, 2006 7:07AM Maziar, I must say as I read your comment this morning, I became both surprised and disappointed. Surprised to find that the guy who every time I think of, I remember him driving up some motorway in LA in his jeep with the roof down and his shades on and his curls blowing in the air, passing on some of his great business wisdom to Kamyar and I (Dumb and Dumber) who had arrived in LA only a couple of days before and saying things like ‘if you have one dollar, you can either go and buy an apple with it and eat the apple and then have nothing, or you can invest that one dollar and make it into two dollars’ and so on and so forth, was in fact interested in darvishi! a way of living that as a rule, does not allow you to have any possessions at all, to the extent that if you eat your dinner and become full, you can’t keep the leftovers for tomorrow and must give them away! And disappointed since in all our relatives put together, you are the only business minded person and the only one that is probably going to become a millionaire one day and Kamyar and I had always banked on that fact, fantasizing that one day when you become seriously rich, we can come to visit one summer and then maybe move into your shed and refuse to leave and become the embarrassing relatives who have barbeques on your lawn and leave beer cans all over the place and tell embarrassing stories about you to your posh guests and have their babies run around naked. To complete the image, Kamyar will of course have to ditch his camera for a banjo but unfortunately I have not as yet been able to persuade him to do that.
However when I read the last paragraph, I could breath easily again as I knew exactly what your game was. You are of course not interested in becoming a dervish; you are merely interested in becoming the dervishes’ leader, probably thinking that you can turn your family’s Sufi order into a big corporation, unionise all the dervishes and drive the other Sufi orders out of business (but not before headhunting the best of the best from all the other orders and getting them to join you by making them an offer they can’t refuse; a new set of tabarzin and kashkool, a Philips beard trimmer and one of those budgies that pick out faaleh Hafez for people).
All in all my dear brother-in-law, it gives me great pleasure to say, my faith in you has not only been restored but has now also been tripled. I’m sure Kamyar and I will sleep a lot easier now that we know that even if your computer programming company does not workout, you always have the great Sufi business to fall back on ;-)
Maziar Adl | May 21, 2006 12:25AM Shirin,
A) Don't mix business with pleasure!
B) Don't know about being a millionair but a man without friends to hang out with and a vision to strive for can have all the millions he wants and he still will long for a "life"!
C) I am like a cat! everything and anything raises my curiosity, just that some things do it more than others!
D) I'm preparing myself for the day that I have to conserve extremely and keep the food for tomorrow and ... so make sure you keep a room open for us (don't worry we will bring the towels and the sleeping bags)
Chaker...
Shirin| May 21, 2006 5:53AM A) So that’s where I’ve been going wrong then all these years. From now on, I shall only draw unpleasant images.
B) This millionaire guy that you speak of, do you have an address or a phone number for him because Kamyar and I will gladly go and make friends with him and maybe even move in with him to help him get that ‘life’ he is so longing for.
C) Sounds good. Just be careful though; you know what they say, curiosity killed the cat.
D) Do you think you might be able to bring that cinema screen television of yours as well or will the bailiffs have taken it?
Maziar | May 22, 2006 2:23PM A) No still plenty of pleasant ones to paint, and besides jokes, thank you for believing in me. If it wasn't for the support of friends like you, I wouldn't have done half this crazy stuff I've done so far and I'm happy and lucky that I can and I do. Being a millionair is different and it nevre was my "objective" but if it happens I wouldn't complain. My objective was to live everyday doing what I love and sleep knowing I did something great that day.
B) Yes you are welcome anyday, he lives in Rancho Santa Margarita and has a brother that apparently loves taking photos!
C) No risk no reward. It's not how you fall, it's how you land. OR as we persians say "Joojeh ro akhare paiz mishmoran!"
D) I'll try to hide it from the debt collectors even though I think carying it on my back and saying "I'm the cousin of Hunchback of Notredam" might be a long shot! But HEY I'M A CAT.
And what does all this have to do with this poor guy whom painted his hands and looks SOOO out of it?
Shirin| May 24, 2006 7:11AM I knew about the yellow dog being the brother of jackal but cat being the cousin of Hunchback of Notre Dame is news to me! Well, you live and learn.
About all the support and everything, you’re very welcome brother. There’s one little thing there though that I feel I should come clean about. Of course I want your business to be successful because I want you and your lovely wife to be happy and have a great life and all the rest of it but if I’m honest with you, now that I’ve found out what you really are, I’m having my fingers crossed even more because I’m now absolutely terrified of the thought of you failing and then moving here with us. Please don’t take this the wrong way but I really can’t see how we can live in this tiny apartment with a big cat like you wanting to run around all the time and get curious about stuff. I know you’re probably housetrained and all that but even the very well-mannered cats have been known to relieve themselves in a plant pot from time to time and I’m quite fond of my plants really so I won’t like that one bit. I know I’m just being selfish here but what exactly am I supposed to do when you bring fur balls up on our Persian carpet or decide to sharpen your claws on our table leg? Plus my mum is absolutely terrified of cats and my cousin, Shadi is deadly allergic to them.
Maziar | May 30, 2006 2:51AM Yep! and don't forget the scratchpost, some cat house where I can climb to, and cat food. Don't worry, cats have a lot of love for their hosts its totally worth it and they are cool to watch when they get their curiousity turned on. See you soon!
Elaheh | November 3, 2008 1:07PM And I am a great grand daughter of Monis Ali shah!!!! Any questions??
Kazem | October 8, 2009 2:00PM Great photo,colors & character.
Millicent| January 6, 2012 6:48AM That's way more clever than I was exeptcing. Thanks!
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You do Ali proud with this portrait.
Huh, he reminds me of Entezami! What do they call those axe-like things he is hanging? Does anybody know what they are or what they stand for?
Someone once told me, because the Dervishes would wander around day and night, in and out of cities, from one place to the other like gypsies, those axes used to be their defence against wild animals and thieves, etc. I am not sure though!
Interesting, probably true. Wonder were I could get more info on the whole subject of Ali followers, the Dervish and their history.
Maziar, the little hatchets that dervishes carry around are called ‘Tabar-zin’.
Now since you have expressed interest in the subject of darvishi, I thought you might like this little story. It’s about Abou-Saeed-eh Abolkheir, one of the most famous dervishes.
One day a man was walking around in Greece when he came face to face with the Devil. The man was surprised to say the least. ‘What business can the Devil possibly have here in Greece where all people are sinners (on account of them all being non Moslems)?’ He thought to himself, ‘He should be in a Moslem country trying to trick the good people into doing bad things. Maybe he’s on his holidays (vacation to you Americans)!’ But no, the Devil looked too lost and disorientated to be on his holidays.
Sometime later when the Devil finally managed to clear his head a little and recall what had happened to him, this is the story he told the man: ‘Just a little while ago this morning, after a heavy night of tricking Moslem men and women into doing bad things, I was enjoying a little stroll around the streets of Iran, breathing in the beautiful smell of horseshit, when I suddenly found myself in front of the great Abou-Saeed-eh Abolkheir. Everything that happened after that is a blur. I vaguely remember Abou-Saeed getting on all fours and pointing his bottom in my direction, next thing I knew he had produced such an amazingly powerful (excuse my language) fart, that had blasted me all the way to Greece!’
And that is the way of the true dervish my dear brother-in-law.
Funny! Interesting about Tabar-Zin. Somehow I knew the word but didn't know what it means!
I also did a little of my own research on the net. Apparently this Mollah Nassr-e-din is also a figure from a Dervish or Sufi order. And, there are quite a few of these orders of Dervishes. The orders have members from Iran to Turkey to Senegal! For example the Nimatulalhi order which most its members now reside in Iran is an order following Shah Nematullah (whom settled in Kerman during 14th Century) and they where originally Sunni's. They converted sometime during 16th century to Shia. Then there is the Sufi order in Turkey which are probably the most famous since they have performed in most the world with their white outfit and their unique Sufi dance and that is the Khalwati or Helvati order. Finally it seems that the most popular order is Naqshbandi order which seems to trace it roots from prophet Mohammed through Abu-Bakr. The starter of this Sufi order was (drum roll) Baha-ud-Din Naqshband Bukhari around late 14th century.
My theory is that during Ilkhanat there was to some extent religous tolerance so all these different orders came about which I think mainly was a way for Persians to find an identity that was not defined under Arab or Mongolian traditions. Post-Ilkhanat era in Iran was a struggle to achieve this identity which I think ended in the Safavid dynasty (with Safavid order being their way) finally bringing a fully sovereign Iran back in the hands of Iranians after many years of Arab and Mongolian rule followed by kaos. Shia was a way to differentiate yourself and gain independence in Iran as an Iranian at the time (even before Ilkhanat). But that is just my theory and probably Shirin your father knows much more about this.
I'm interested because I believe that a big part of my Grandfather's family from my mothers side, follow some Dervish or Sufi order that heavily believes in following Imam Ali's way. I also have heard that they select a person from the family to be the head of it. To what extent this is true and how serious the new generation is keeping up the tradition? I have no clue! All I know is that even if that is so, it seems that we are not part of it, cause I didn't get any invitations to no ceremonies! ;)
A truly "WOW picture. Just look at him ... it's like we all know him ... A biker looking darvish ... some character, huh? Love his "henna" painted nails, the look in his eyes .... oh the stories he could tell. Did you get a chance to talkk to this gentleman kami joon?
No unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to talk to him Tima joon.
Maziar, I must say as I read your comment this morning, I became both surprised and disappointed. Surprised to find that the guy who every time I think of, I remember him driving up some motorway in LA in his jeep with the roof down and his shades on and his curls blowing in the air, passing on some of his great business wisdom to Kamyar and I (Dumb and Dumber) who had arrived in LA only a couple of days before and saying things like ‘if you have one dollar, you can either go and buy an apple with it and eat the apple and then have nothing, or you can invest that one dollar and make it into two dollars’ and so on and so forth, was in fact interested in darvishi! a way of living that as a rule, does not allow you to have any possessions at all, to the extent that if you eat your dinner and become full, you can’t keep the leftovers for tomorrow and must give them away! And disappointed since in all our relatives put together, you are the only business minded person and the only one that is probably going to become a millionaire one day and Kamyar and I had always banked on that fact, fantasizing that one day when you become seriously rich, we can come to visit one summer and then maybe move into your shed and refuse to leave and become the embarrassing relatives who have barbeques on your lawn and leave beer cans all over the place and tell embarrassing stories about you to your posh guests and have their babies run around naked. To complete the image, Kamyar will of course have to ditch his camera for a banjo but unfortunately I have not as yet been able to persuade him to do that.
However when I read the last paragraph, I could breath easily again as I knew exactly what your game was. You are of course not interested in becoming a dervish; you are merely interested in becoming the dervishes’ leader, probably thinking that you can turn your family’s Sufi order into a big corporation, unionise all the dervishes and drive the other Sufi orders out of business (but not before headhunting the best of the best from all the other orders and getting them to join you by making them an offer they can’t refuse; a new set of tabarzin and kashkool, a Philips beard trimmer and one of those budgies that pick out faaleh Hafez for people).
All in all my dear brother-in-law, it gives me great pleasure to say, my faith in you has not only been restored but has now also been tripled. I’m sure Kamyar and I will sleep a lot easier now that we know that even if your computer programming company does not workout, you always have the great Sufi business to fall back on ;-)
Shirin,
A) Don't mix business with pleasure!
B) Don't know about being a millionair but a man without friends to hang out with and a vision to strive for can have all the millions he wants and he still will long for a "life"!
C) I am like a cat! everything and anything raises my curiosity, just that some things do it more than others!
D) I'm preparing myself for the day that I have to conserve extremely and keep the food for tomorrow and ... so make sure you keep a room open for us (don't worry we will bring the towels and the sleeping bags)
Chaker...
A) So that’s where I’ve been going wrong then all these years. From now on, I shall only draw unpleasant images.
B) This millionaire guy that you speak of, do you have an address or a phone number for him because Kamyar and I will gladly go and make friends with him and maybe even move in with him to help him get that ‘life’ he is so longing for.
C) Sounds good. Just be careful though; you know what they say, curiosity killed the cat.
D) Do you think you might be able to bring that cinema screen television of yours as well or will the bailiffs have taken it?
A) No still plenty of pleasant ones to paint, and besides jokes, thank you for believing in me. If it wasn't for the support of friends like you, I wouldn't have done half this crazy stuff I've done so far and I'm happy and lucky that I can and I do. Being a millionair is different and it nevre was my "objective" but if it happens I wouldn't complain. My objective was to live everyday doing what I love and sleep knowing I did something great that day.
B) Yes you are welcome anyday, he lives in Rancho Santa Margarita and has a brother that apparently loves taking photos!
C) No risk no reward. It's not how you fall, it's how you land. OR as we persians say "Joojeh ro akhare paiz mishmoran!"
D) I'll try to hide it from the debt collectors even though I think carying it on my back and saying "I'm the cousin of Hunchback of Notredam" might be a long shot! But HEY I'M A CAT.
And what does all this have to do with this poor guy whom painted his hands and looks SOOO out of it?
I knew about the yellow dog being the brother of jackal but cat being the cousin of Hunchback of Notre Dame is news to me! Well, you live and learn.
About all the support and everything, you’re very welcome brother. There’s one little thing there though that I feel I should come clean about. Of course I want your business to be successful because I want you and your lovely wife to be happy and have a great life and all the rest of it but if I’m honest with you, now that I’ve found out what you really are, I’m having my fingers crossed even more because I’m now absolutely terrified of the thought of you failing and then moving here with us. Please don’t take this the wrong way but I really can’t see how we can live in this tiny apartment with a big cat like you wanting to run around all the time and get curious about stuff. I know you’re probably housetrained and all that but even the very well-mannered cats have been known to relieve themselves in a plant pot from time to time and I’m quite fond of my plants really so I won’t like that one bit. I know I’m just being selfish here but what exactly am I supposed to do when you bring fur balls up on our Persian carpet or decide to sharpen your claws on our table leg? Plus my mum is absolutely terrified of cats and my cousin, Shadi is deadly allergic to them.
Yep! and don't forget the scratchpost, some cat house where I can climb to, and cat food. Don't worry, cats have a lot of love for their hosts its totally worth it and they are cool to watch when they get their curiousity turned on. See you soon!
And I am a great grand daughter of Monis Ali shah!!!! Any questions??
Great photo,colors & character.
That's way more clever than I was exeptcing. Thanks!
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